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	<title>Comments on: Another take on associate retention rates</title>
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	<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/</link>
	<description>It's about life and the law... And living as a lawyer</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 04:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Julie Fleming-Brown</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15965</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Fleming-Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15965</guid>
		<description>Joseph, I neither want nor intend to argue with you.  I will, however, respond to your final comment for the sake of clarity and closure.  

My post was directed exclusively to the question of whether the frequent-job-change trend described by Penelope Trunk may inform the law firm associate attrition rates that are the focus of quite a bit of discussion among law firms and those who work with/in them.  

IBM, though it employs a large number of lawyers, is not a law firm.  In-house counsel operate under some different norms (though some overlap) from those that tend to play out among private firm lawyers.  Moreover, although IBM lawyers may be interested in the legal aspects of R&#38;D, they don't do R&#38;D.  

Again, your comments are directed toward Penelope's post, not toward mine.

I appreciate your clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph, I neither want nor intend to argue with you.  I will, however, respond to your final comment for the sake of clarity and closure.  </p>
<p>My post was directed exclusively to the question of whether the frequent-job-change trend described by Penelope Trunk may inform the law firm associate attrition rates that are the focus of quite a bit of discussion among law firms and those who work with/in them.  </p>
<p>IBM, though it employs a large number of lawyers, is not a law firm.  In-house counsel operate under some different norms (though some overlap) from those that tend to play out among private firm lawyers.  Moreover, although IBM lawyers may be interested in the legal aspects of R&amp;D, they don&#8217;t do R&amp;D.  </p>
<p>Again, your comments are directed toward Penelope&#8217;s post, not toward mine.</p>
<p>I appreciate your clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Dunphy</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15882</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Dunphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15882</guid>
		<description>Ms.Fleming-Brown, let's take a look at the post by Trunk that you're responding to, starting with a passage that you referred to in the body of your own post:

"Although the thoughts don’t transfer entirely to law, Penelope Trunk, the Brazen Careerist, has an interesting post today titled  Make Life More Stable With Frequent Job Changes.  The thrust of the post is that most new employees today will change jobs every two years "



Let's place that in context. Trunk writes:

"It used to be that finding a good paying career was the path to adult-life stability. Those days are over. What we think of as stability has to change, and how we get to that stability has to change.

Here’s a summary of the new employee of today’s workplace: Most will change jobs every two years. Most will start their adult life by moving back in with their parents. Most say that money is not their number one concern in evaluating a job.

You think it’s a recipe for instability, right? But what else is there to do? Work at IBM until you get a gold watch? There are no more jobs like that - companies are under too much pressure to be lean and flexible (read: layoffs, downsizing, reorgs), so workers have to be, too (read: constantly on the alert for new job possibilities)."


I had no idea that IBM was a law firm, and I'm guessing that you didn't, either. :) It is, in fact, an electronics firm that historically has been more than slightly connected to R&#38;D, so if your confusion was sincere - just how closely did you read Ms.Trunk's article?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms.Fleming-Brown, let&#8217;s take a look at the post by Trunk that you&#8217;re responding to, starting with a passage that you referred to in the body of your own post:</p>
<p>&#8220;Although the thoughts don’t transfer entirely to law, Penelope Trunk, the Brazen Careerist, has an interesting post today titled  Make Life More Stable With Frequent Job Changes.  The thrust of the post is that most new employees today will change jobs every two years &#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s place that in context. Trunk writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;It used to be that finding a good paying career was the path to adult-life stability. Those days are over. What we think of as stability has to change, and how we get to that stability has to change.</p>
<p>Here’s a summary of the new employee of today’s workplace: Most will change jobs every two years. Most will start their adult life by moving back in with their parents. Most say that money is not their number one concern in evaluating a job.</p>
<p>You think it’s a recipe for instability, right? But what else is there to do? Work at IBM until you get a gold watch? There are no more jobs like that - companies are under too much pressure to be lean and flexible (read: layoffs, downsizing, reorgs), so workers have to be, too (read: constantly on the alert for new job possibilities).&#8221;</p>
<p>I had no idea that IBM was a law firm, and I&#8217;m guessing that you didn&#8217;t, either. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> It is, in fact, an electronics firm that historically has been more than slightly connected to R&amp;D, so if your confusion was sincere - just how closely did you read Ms.Trunk&#8217;s article?</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Fleming-Brown</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15823</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Fleming-Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15823</guid>
		<description>Joseph, thanks for your comment.  I was initially a bit puzzled about its content, since this post has nothing to do with an R&#38;D project at all.  

Then I discovered your blog, on which you wrote, "Reading some commentary about generation Y and its future in the workplace by one of my least favorite bloggers (Penelope Trunk, aka "The Brazen Careerist"), I couldn't help but notice just how much our smugly passionate defender of the status quo was predicting that the very youngest adults would be able to get away with, and the reasons she gave for this."  

So I take it that your comment is directed more toward Penelope Trunk than this post.  Fair enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph, thanks for your comment.  I was initially a bit puzzled about its content, since this post has nothing to do with an R&amp;D project at all.  </p>
<p>Then I discovered your blog, on which you wrote, &#8220;Reading some commentary about generation Y and its future in the workplace by one of my least favorite bloggers (Penelope Trunk, aka &#8220;The Brazen Careerist&#8221;), I couldn&#8217;t help but notice just how much our smugly passionate defender of the status quo was predicting that the very youngest adults would be able to get away with, and the reasons she gave for this.&#8221;  </p>
<p>So I take it that your comment is directed more toward Penelope Trunk than this post.  Fair enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Dunphy</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15814</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Dunphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-15814</guid>
		<description>So, let's think about this - any serious R&#38;D project will take more years to complete than will probably be left in the time at the firm remaining to any of the participants. How, pray tell, is anything supposed to get done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, let&#8217;s think about this - any serious R&amp;D project will take more years to complete than will probably be left in the time at the firm remaining to any of the participants. How, pray tell, is anything supposed to get done?</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Fleming Brown</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-1935</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Fleming Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-1935</guid>
		<description>Penelope, thanks for visiting and commenting!  I agree that entrepreneurship is up signficantly, as is the desire to work for oneself.  Unless the bug results in a lawyer's opening his/her own practice (or starting a firm or the like), I wouldn't count that as practicing law.  Using the skills, sure, quite likely in a way that's more amenable to frequent job hops.

I'm still not so sure it's feasible to change jobs frequently as a rank-and-file lawyer.  I think it's possible early in one's practice, and it's probably always feasible for the superstars.  But especially for those in private practice, I think the challenges of developing and maintaining a book of business would likely counsel against frequent changes.  Who knows, though; so much has changed in practice over the last few years, and you may have tapped right on a harbinger of things to come.

I checked out ReputationDefender -- fascinating idea!  That's a terrific example of taking a legal background and making it sing as an entrepreneur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope, thanks for visiting and commenting!  I agree that entrepreneurship is up signficantly, as is the desire to work for oneself.  Unless the bug results in a lawyer&#8217;s opening his/her own practice (or starting a firm or the like), I wouldn&#8217;t count that as practicing law.  Using the skills, sure, quite likely in a way that&#8217;s more amenable to frequent job hops.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still not so sure it&#8217;s feasible to change jobs frequently as a rank-and-file lawyer.  I think it&#8217;s possible early in one&#8217;s practice, and it&#8217;s probably always feasible for the superstars.  But especially for those in private practice, I think the challenges of developing and maintaining a book of business would likely counsel against frequent changes.  Who knows, though; so much has changed in practice over the last few years, and you may have tapped right on a harbinger of things to come.</p>
<p>I checked out ReputationDefender &#8212; fascinating idea!  That&#8217;s a terrific example of taking a legal background and making it sing as an entrepreneur.</p>
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		<title>By: Penelope Trunk</title>
		<link>http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-1934</link>
		<dc:creator>Penelope Trunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lifeatthebar.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/another-take-on-associate-retention-rates/#comment-1934</guid>
		<description>Hi, Julie. You look at this issue from an interesting angle. I was surprised by the statistics at the beginning of the post, and I'm sure I will repeat them a lot :)

One thing you might consider is the trend that young people are much more entrepreneurial than older people. I think this might apply to lawyers as well. Something to consider when thinking about staying in one position vs hopping if you're a lawyer. 

A good example of lawyer entrperneurs that I've come across is ReputationDefender. 

Penelope</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Julie. You look at this issue from an interesting angle. I was surprised by the statistics at the beginning of the post, and I&#8217;m sure I will repeat them a lot <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>One thing you might consider is the trend that young people are much more entrepreneurial than older people. I think this might apply to lawyers as well. Something to consider when thinking about staying in one position vs hopping if you&#8217;re a lawyer. </p>
<p>A good example of lawyer entrperneurs that I&#8217;ve come across is ReputationDefender. </p>
<p>Penelope</p>
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